Jo Saxton Message Review (IF:Gathering Series Pt.3-Teaching cont.)

Season 2 Episode 9 Transcript

Introduction:

Hello Ladies and welcome back to another episode, so glad you could join me today. If you are new, welcome! 

We are in the middle of critiquing the very popular women’s conference, the IF:Gathering. And if you have just tuned in to this podcast I highly suggest you go to the first episode of this series which is episode 3 of this season. In the previous episodes, I present to you my purpose in critiquing the conference, how I’m going about doing that, and it will help put this episode in context for you as we are in the middle of looking at the 2020 conference as the speakers were set to address Romans 8 and present us with Christ through them. At least that was what was promised by Jennie Allen in the opening session of the conference. So far we are 3 sessions in  and the word Christ and the name Jesus has been mentioned, but his person and work is at this point lacking in the messages. If we were really being taught what Paul had communicated in the epistle it would be REALLY hard to  NOT learn about Jesus and what He did for His people because our problem and God’s work is laid bare for us to know in this letter. Now we’ve heard that God satisfied our greatest need but no talk of how he did. We’ve heard that we should fight the enemy that presents us with negative thoughts, and that we should learn to value that which is in us, the Spirit of Christ, so that we would be empowered to live supernatural lives and accomplish God’s calling for us. All of this we are supposed to get from Romans 8:1-11.

Today I’m going to present to you a message given by Jo Saxton on Rom. 8:14-17. And like the other messages we are going to first look at this text in context and practice hermeneutics to determine what the author’s intent was in writing the passage. We are going to read and determine what it is that the Holy Spirit is trying to teach us through this epistle which Paul wrote and compare it to what Jo Saxton delivers.

So let’s dive in shall we?

Now if you remember for the last couple of episodes, we know that Paul was presenting the truth that ALL men are under the wrath of God because mankind suppresses the truth in unrighteousness (Rom.1:18-25). Both Jew and Gentile are unrighteous and are under sin, for by the works of the law no human being is justified in the sight of God (Rom. 3:9-20). But now the righteousness of God, has been made manifest- the righteousness that comes by grace through faith in Christ Jesus  who was put forward as the propitiation for our sins so He would be just and justifier of the one who has faith in Him (Rom 3:21-27). Paul goes on to talk about the promise made to Abraham and how by faith in it he was justified, and we are Abraham’s children when we too, have faith in God and the sacrifice of his Son on the cross for our sins. That we are counted righteous when we believe in him who raised up from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification (Rom. 4:13-25). Just as sin entered the world by one man’s (Adam’s) trespass bringing condemnation for all men, it is through the One Man (Jesus Christ) that the free gift of grace abounds for many bringing them justification, righteousness, and life (Rom. 5:12-21). And  it is because of this great grace that we do not go on sinning, for if we have been united with Christ our old self was crucified with Him, setting us free from sin, dead to it and alive to Christ, since we are not under law but grace (Rom. 6:1-12). Because we are under grace, we are to present ourselves as slaves…. having become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which [we]were committed, ¹⁸ and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness… For we have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and it’s end, eternal life. The wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord (Rom. 6:15-23). For those who know the law are bound to the law, but we have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that we may belong to Him, in order to bear fruit for God. We are released from the law to serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. But that doesn’t mean the law is sin. No, Paul says the law was the way he came to know what sin is and to make manifest of how he sins, producing death in him, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and though the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. The law is spiritual but he is of the flesh, sold under sin. Yet he sees in himself a conflict, the conflict between that of his desire to obey the commandments; his flesh which prevents his members from carrying it out. For he does not do the good he wants but the evil he does not want is what he keeps doing, making him captive to the law of sin in his members. He then cries out that he is wretched and needs to be delivered from the body of death (Rom 7).

Here is where Paul proclaims that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus because Christ came in the flesh, condemning sin in His flesh, in order that the righteous requirement  of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not in the flesh but in the Spirit. Those who walk in the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh but those who walk in the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Now this is where we are in the epistle. I’m going to read from Romans 8:9-17

 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. ¹⁰ But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. ¹¹ If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

¹² So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. ¹³ For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. ¹⁴ For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. ¹⁵ For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” ¹⁶ The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, ¹⁷ and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

So let’s look at what this passage is talking about. The Holy Spirit through Paul, after informing the reader that those who are in the flesh cannot please God, tells us that we are not of the flesh if the Spirit of God dwells in us. He wants us to know that though our body is dead because of our sin, the Spirit of Life residing in us is righteousness. That same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead lives in us and gives life to our mortal bodies. Because of this we are not to let our flesh rule over us, we owe it nothing, and instead we desire and make great pains to put it to death so we might live. If we are led by the Spirit to put to death the deeds of the flesh then we can know we are sons of God.  We did not receive the spirit of slavery- of which he is talking about being under the control of the flesh- slavery to our desires and sins by which we know in truth that we will one day be held accountable for every thought word and deed, every transgression of God’s law. Knowing that God’s wrath will one day pour out on all who are without a perfect righteousness leads one into fear. This is true, good and right, to have in a certain amount or another understood this and been brought to this fear, this fear leads to repentance. But we are not slaves to this knowledge because we have been given the Spirit that instead of fear we go to God as “Abba, Father” bearing witness that we are children of God, and as children heirs with Christ not under God’s wrath but under His care and love. In Christ we will receive what God promises, provided we suffer with Him in order that we may also be glorified with him. 

Alright, and before we dive into Mrs. Saxton’s message I want to point out that between Beth Moore’s message and Jo Saxton’s message there is a portion of Scripture that is left out and not even included in the re-reading given by each speaker. So, I mentioned in a previous episode that in their conference introduction they read chapter 8 in its entirety. But with each message, each speaker has also, so far, gone back and read the section of Rom. chapter 8 that they were given to teach on. This is where a couple of passages are completely left out. Rom 8: verses 12 and 13 are 2 of them. Notice what these verses say: So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. ¹³ For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

This is a conference and not a church, and so I understand that any in depth verse by verse teaching is too much to ask. But what I do think is necessary and what I think should be happening in a conference that is, at this time promising to give us Christ from Romans 8, is to at least speak about what is being taught in Romans 8 and that involves presenting messages that teach the concepts that come from the text. For either Beth Moore’s message or Jo Saxton’s message, verses 12 & 13 should be read and should be in their message in some form or other because it too is part of Romans 8, yet it is completely cast aside and ignored. 

With that said let’s see how Jo Saxton handles the text she’s been given to speak on.

Jo Saxton starts out with presenting the audience with this thought “If the Spirit of God is real,  living in us, changing us, and brings us no condemnation then it has implications for everyday life” and that Roms 8 verses 14-17 explain that and expound upon what Jesus has done for us.

She reads the text and gives a brief explanation into some history behind the Roman empire at the time that this was written. And this is good, to get to know the history at the time can help sharpen our understanding of what is being said in the text. 

Let’s listen in to what she says about the history because she will use it to lay a foundation for her message. (Play clip 1)

So with this back ground in mind, that many of the subjects were “defined by slavery” and explaining the Roman institution of adoption as one of taking on a slave to be adopted and be trained to take on the family business so-to-speak, she describes the ceremony that took place in the adoption of these slaves. That somewhere in the ceremony there was a  wiping out of their past. All was forgotten and forgiven, no matter what their past was, no matter the debts. Their life was quote “completely and utterly transformed” un-quote. It is with this background she then says that we are to look at the text. She reads the first part of verse 15 and she will read from the New Living Translation. (Play clip 2)

 I want to bring to your attention the fact that she is using this translation because it will be the crux of her message. Unless you have many translations in front of you you would not be able to recognize this very sneaky twist. The New Living Translation states what she read: So you have not received a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. While most other translations render it in this way:

For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear (The ESV).

For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear (The Berean Study Bible).

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear (The KJV).

In this passage, remember the context is in light of the Law and our inability to keep it. With this knowledge we are brought into fear of the wrath that is due us for the transgression of God’s law. This is what is meant by slavery: that the one who set their mind on the flesh is a slave to the flesh and cannot please God (verse 8) and therefore would rightly be in fear of God who will hold us all accountable (Rom.3:19). That is the spirit  of slavery or bondage that LEADS TO fear. Not that we are slaves TO fear. Watch where she goes with this: (Play clip 3)

See the twist? It’s a sneaky one. What is the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul saying we are slaves to in Romans? What is the slavery to? Are we not to be slaves to fear, owned or managed by our fear? Or are we not to go back to slavery to the flesh that leads to fear? What does Paul mean by a spirit of slavery that leads to fear?

Scripture interprets Scripture: Paul, in Chapter 6 describes slavery. That we are slaves either to obedience which leads to righteousness or slaves to sin, which leads to death.  Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? ¹⁷ But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, ¹⁸ and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. ¹⁹ I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.It is the spirit of slavery to sin that will cause us to live in fear. The pursuit of our own passions and flesh bring fear because we know that those who do these things will fall under the wrath of God. That’s the context of this passage and that is what this spirit is pointing to. This verse is not talking about fear guiding and ruling our life producing such character traits as perfectionism, comparison, worry, etc.

With this twist we can know then that the text is not really going to be handled correctly.Did you see where she went with this?. Before we continue, do you remember back in the Jada Edwards message critique where I mentioned that the speakers really emphasize a type of mental battle in their teachings? Making people’s main problem is their struggle with self esteem? Jada talks about God providing for our greatest need (without going into the work of Christ at all), and because of this we can go through our life without condemnation. Jennie explains that negative thoughts come from an enemy, and Beth Moore urges us to value what is in us so we live supernatural lives.

So Mrs. Saxton states that this text is telling us that our problem is fear not sin. And that this fear shows up as different characteristics that can define our lives. Let’s look at these. And really ask if they are characteristics of fear.

Perfectionism- Mrs Saxton states that perfectionism is a result of fearing that we are not good enough. Always thinking as if we could have done something better. But is perfectionism a result of fear or sin? At the core of perfectionism there can be a couple of things involved. One may desire to be perfect because they believe they can be, which means they don’t understand their sinful nature. Or perhaps they idolize themselves, relying on themselves to provide what is needed and wanted. Regardless, perfectionism in a Christian is due to a lack of understanding that no matter what you do you cannot please God, for the flesh cannot please God (Rom.8:8).  but that which is done in faith that pleases him (Heb. 11:6). And therefore the perfectionist needs Christ and to rest and trust in His perfect work. 

Comparison- is this a result of fear that we are not as good as others? Well, wouldn’t wanting to be like someone else, as good as them be  a form of coveting- transgression of the 10th commandment? Isn’t coveting a result of not trusting that God knows best in they way he has made you, and what he has given you? And why might one compare themselves to another other than we, in some form or other, believe they are better than ourselves, or in pride are better than others? Why even compare ourselves to others? We are all sinners. Why not compare ourselves to Christ, grasp our depravity, call out to our heavenly Father to forgive us and praise him for giving us his Son. A right understanding of whom we are clothed with when we trust in the work of Christ casts all comparison aside for we realize that we are all one in Christ Jesus (Gal.3:28)

Unhealthy Competition- Is this a result of fear of not being first and what it says about you to lose? Again, cannot the desire to win be a result of the sin of coveting? Coveting the status of being a winner? When one worries over what losing a competition would say about you, isn’t their pride in that? That to lose would humble us and it would hurt our pride? And who is it that receives the glory when we win? Unhealthy competition is a result of sin not fear.  

Control- Is this a result of fear? Or is it the result of a lack of faith and trust in God in his sovereignty? Is it a result of idolatry of the self and self reliance? These are sins.

She lists Worry-(again lack of trust in the Sovereignty AND goodness of God) and Anger- (usually a result of the lack of gratitude for all God has given, and/or a lack of modesty and humbleness, for who is to say we deserve anything, or any decent treatment? We usually lash out in anger because we feel someone has mistreated us/ hurt our feelings- we can feel anger for the mistreatment of others but that would be good but only if it is based in truth.

She begs us to ask this question: Where is fear defining our lives, and what does God want to say to us about it? 

She then goes back into the passage and reads the rest of verse 15 and verse 16. but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” ¹⁶ The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God… She will then connect the Spirit of adoption to being set free from fear (not sin, mind you….fear). (Play clip 4)

So our problem was that we were under the slavery of fear, oppressed, labeled, and misidentified, not that we were slaves to sin, to our flesh, walking in the desires to gratify the flesh, all of which was leading us to death. Instead, we were victims to fear, and owned by what we say about ourselves and what others say about us. But now we have been adopted, no longer owned by these things. And again, she challenges us to ask if we are really free? 

She then talks about how we may struggle with this idea of God being our father, that some of us have had bad experiences with our fathers and tend to equate that with our heavenly father. She gives her own story of the absence of her father in her life,and invites us to come to God as a different Father, one that wants to set us free from whatever has trapped us. And asks us what is our picture of God the Father and how is it defining our life?  She urges us to be honest if we still fear God…(Play clip 5)

In this clip she lays out that our past, words or characteristics of fear, these things that she says could still be laying claim to you need to be let go, and insinuates that our lack of knowing God as our heavenly father is a result of these things in our past. Not our sins, not a lack of diving into his word and getting to know Christ, but merely letting go of our fears.

And since, she says, God is real, has adopted us and is a better father than we know it changes our life forever. But there is more. Since we are adopted we are also heirs. She then proceeds to read the rest of the passage: and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. She then brings back the Roman laws and institute that surrounded Roman adoption; describing how slaves who were adopted became heirs who were to carry on the legacy of the family, always the father’s and always representing him in the world. The slave is now an heir and has been given a purpose: (Play clip 6)

Now there is some tiny bit of truth in this in regards to a new life and gifts being given to us to do good works. Not some grand purpose, but works of service and love toward others, in big and small ways. But this is not what this passage is saying about our inheritance. While there are some blessings that we receive when we become Christians we can’t or won’t miss out on anything God has promised to give us. Before we get into what this passage means by being a heir and what is our inheritance, let’s continue listening to what she has to say: (Play clip 7)

Now, like I said God does give us gifts, but is that our inheritance? Are our gifts our inheritance? And can we miss our inheritance because of fear? Is this what Paul means when he talks about being heirs? What does Paul say our inheritance is? Now let’s look at this text and do like we always should when trying to understand what it is trying to say and actually put it back in context.

Let’s start at verse 12 and read all the way to verse 25 :  

So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. ¹³ For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. ¹⁴ For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. ¹⁵ For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” ¹⁶ The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, ¹⁷ and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

¹⁸ For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. ¹⁹ For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. ²⁰ For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope ²¹ that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. ²² For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. ²³ And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. ²⁴ For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? ²⁵ But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

Romans 8:12-25

The inheritance talked about in Romans is not gifts that God has given to accomplish a purpose but the New Heavens and new earth, free of corruption and futility, and our new imperishable/sinless body that we will receive upon the return of Christ. But listen to what Mrs. Saxton says our inheritance is: (Play clip 8)

Jo Saxton is teaching that our inheritance is the gifts given by God to accomplish a purpose or great calling. These callings, such as great business opportunities, conversations, and church “births”, can be missed if we don’t open  and receive our inheritance. 

See this is how Scripture is twisted. It’s so often done that women miss it. A teacher reads the passage, pulls out one or 2 verses of that passage, focuses on just one point of the verse, and twists the meaning of that point to be whatever they’ve decided that it should mean and not actually what the original author intended it to mean. In Mrs. Saxton’s case she’s focusing on slavery and inheritance, but has made them mean what she wants them to mean and not what Paul actually has them mean. Slavery, from Mrs. Saxton’s teaching is servitude to our fears and our inheritance are the gifts that God has given to us to accomplish our calling in this life. A calling or purpose that can be neglected or missed because we might be slaves to our fears. Is that what Paul is trying to explain in his writings to the Romans? 

This type of teaching is very world centered, very focused on this side of eternity. It is also, again, very burdensome on women. It causes one to look away from clear instruction from God encouraging his women to be focused on her home, her husband, her children, and her close neighbors, and makes her doubt that her simple faith in Christ through the outworking of love displayed in obedience to the commandments of God are not pleasing to God nor are fulfilling his calling for her life. Instead she is brought to reject these things and work toward “so- called” bigger works, a grand purpose or calling, that takes her away from her home and pushes her toward a world-changing work, thinking that she is accomplishing the Lord’s work received through subjective nudges based on what she FEELS God is calling her to, and rejecting the clear, concise instructions found in His word.

This type of teaching places more power in us to accomplish God’s will than in God Himself, for his will is dependent on us finding it and putting to use our gifts. Scripture speaks of no such God, nor of such power in man. God states in Isaiah 46:8-11 

 “Remember this and stand firm, recall it to mind, you transgressors, remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’ calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it. 

If God purposed it He makes it happen. If it doesn’t happen, it wasn’t in God’s plan. PERIOD.

Mrs Saxton continues to encourage her audience that this inheritance, these gifts have our names on them and they are how God empowers us to live. What gifts have we left unwrapped, she poses. (Play clip 9)

Where are we? The church is doing exactly what God wants them to do, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in (Ephs. 2:10). 

If there is any inheritance that goes unclaimed, or un-received then God is a liar. For Scripture is clear that God’s… divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, ⁴ by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire (2Pet.1:3-4). All things relating to life and godliness are given to us through the knowledge of Christ. Life and godliness are his will. In the knowledge of Jesus Christ there is nothing that we need that Christ has not supplied to cause us to accomplish God’s will, partake of the divine nature, and escape corruption. And He has promised us the greatest gift of all, a new, incorruptible body and eternity with Him. 

Instead, Jo Saxton, urges us to unwrap our gifts and proclaim the good news that God sets us free from fear, sin, comparison, sets us free from it all…(Play clip 10)

I think this was the only part of her message that I could, for a small part, agree with her. For if the Son has set us free, then we are free indeed (John 8:36). Free from sin. Free from all the ways we suppress the truth in unrighteousness. When we reject or deny that God is a good god who is in complete control, we end up living in fear and anxiety. When we reject that God knows best we live in the sin of ungratefulness, control, comparison, unhealthy competition, worry, and anger. Deep down these are all the result of coveting, wanting more than what God has given, and is blasphemy, rejecting God as God, and refusing to give Him glory for ALL that He has done and given. All of these deserve the wrath of God. Yet, the Son sets us free. Free from fear of the punishment and wrath of God, because of the Son’s sacrifice, and doesn’t just give us a new beginning but an entirely new nature.

But Jo has made our problem our fears and not our sins, and our inheritance are gifts that magnify our works for the world. Romans does not teach this. Romans teaches that the problem lies with us, born with a sinful nature to reject God in all we do, think and say. Romans magnifies Christ’s life as our righteousness and His death on the cross as our propitiation for not only our sins, but the sins of the whole world, and we have come to know Him if we keep His commandments (1 John 2:2-3). We, who trust in Christ’s work are given the Spirit to set our minds on the things of the Spirit, putting to death the deeds of the flesh. Because we have this Spirit we are not to fall back in fear of the judgment and wrath of God but can come to him as Father, bearing witness that we are His children, heirs with Christ provided we suffer with Him in order that we be glorified with Him. These sufferings are nothing compared to the glory that will be revealed to us- the glory of the new heavens, new earth, and new body that will one day be given to us.

For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.” “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

(1 Corin 15:53-57)

This is our inheritance, this is what the Spirit groans for within us. And this inheritance will come to pass, for all those who trust in Christ Jesus.

And that is it for Jo Saxton’s message. What did you think ladies? Did she handle the text correctly? Was her teaching on Romans 8: 14-17 what Paul was trying to teach through it? Feel free to email me and let me know what you think, at throughlyequipped316@gmail.com.

But until next time, where we will be examine a message on Romans 8 verses 24-28 given by Ruth Cho-Simons, I pray that you are praising God that you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but a Spirit that draws you close to God as a loving Father, one who provided everything you needed to be made right with Him. A loving Father who sent his Son to die for you and promises to raise from the dead, like he raised Christ from the dead who is the firstborn among many brothers. I pray you are looking forward to your inheritance, desiring it greatly with each passing day. 

And if you do not know this and are not assured of this promise, I pray that God grants it to you, for I pray that you are in His word.

MelbaToast