Bianca Juarez Olthoff Message Review (IF:Gathering Series pt.3 Teaching cont.)
Season 2 Episode 11 Transcript
INTRODUCTION
Hello Ladies, and welcome back to another episode of Thoroughly Equipped, I’m so happy that you choose to tune into this episode, and if you are new Welcome!
This season we are taking a deep look at the popular women’s conference the IF:Gathering. And this episode is part 6 of the teaching portion of the series. In part 1, we looked at the purpose of the Conference and compared it to the purpose of discipleship as found in Scripture.
In part 2 we looked at the actual women who speak at this conference and the ministries they have. I provided you with a litmus test by which to judge whether they put themselves under the authority of God’s word so that you could determine whether or not to follow them and allow them to disciple you in a way.
We are in the middle of the 3rd part of this series where we are looking at the teachings that were presented at the 2020 conference. It is at this conference that Jennie Allen had each speaker give a message on a portion from Romans chapter 8. With the expressed purpose of giving the audience “more of Jesus”.
So the sessions went like this: Jada Edwards gave a message on Rom. 8:1-4 proclaiming that God took care of our greatest need and now we can live without condemnation. Jennie Allen gave a message on verses 5-8 teaching us to battle the negative thoughts that come from the enemy. Beth Moore on verses 9-11 expressed how she wished that we would cherish that which is in us so that we would live supernatural lives. Jo Saxton on verses 14-17 explaining how were were adopted and no longer need to be slaves to our fears but should open our inheritance to accomplish our callings. Ruth Cho-Simons on verses 23-27 and warned us that if we are counting on our resources to fulfill our calling then we are not trusting in Christ, and today’s session is given by Bianca Juarez-Olthoff on Rom 8 verses 31-37. To listen to my critique of those sessions and discern how they handle Scripture you can check them out, though I highly suggest that you start from the beginning, if you are new to the podcast and have just tuned in.
Before we dive into Mrs. Olthoff’s message let’s go to the text she is to address and read it for ourselves to see what the Holy Spirit has to teach us through the apostle Paul, the author of this epistle.
Let’s get a little context to this message.
Paul, in the earlier chapters of the epistle to the Romans, talked about all of humanity’s problem, that all transgress God’s law and are subject to death and will have to stand before God in judgment. Paul, himself relays how he sees within him two things at war. His Spirit and his flesh. In his mind he desires to obey God’s word, yet in his members he is captive to the law of sin. At this point, right before chapter 8, Paul cries out to be set free from the body of death.
Right here, I believe, Paul is exemplifying what Jesus was pointing to in the first 4 beatitudes in His sermon on the mount. Like Paul, The poor in spirit will mourn over their sin, and like Paul they are submissive or meek to God’s word, and, like Paul they cry out in their hunger and thirst for righteousness (Matt. 5:1-6). After crying out in his wretchedness he praises and thanks God for Jesus Christ who sets people free from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Rom.8:3-4).
Paul proceeds to remind us that there are two types of people: those who set the mind on the flesh and those who set the mind on the Spirit and that those who set the mind on the flesh cannot please God. But , he says, we are not of the flesh if we have the Spirit of Christ in us. Those who do not have the Spirit do not belong to Him, but if Christ is in us, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in [us], he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to [our] mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in [us].(Rom8:9-11)
So because the Spirit of God dwells within us we are not debtors to the flesh, but are called to, by the power of the Spirit, be putting to death the deeds of the body, and if we do we will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. (Rom.8:14-17).
This suffering, the putting to death the deeds of the body, the wrestling with our own sin, the sin of others, and the curse of sin upon this world, is nothing compared to the glory to be revealed to us. That the creation was subjected to futility, and is groaning in pains. And we too, like the creation, in the Spirit, are groaning inwardly, eagerly waiting for adoptions as sons, the redemption of our bodies. This is what we hope for and it is in this hope that we wait for our redemption with patience. Now, let’s get into the text. Let’s begin at verse 26:
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Here’s Mrs. Olthoff’s portion:
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written,
“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Verse 31 starts off with several questions. But it’s the first question that sets the stage for the rest of the passage: “What then should we say to these things?” Well, what are “these things”? If we come to a passage that starts with a question like this we HAVE to go back to see what Paul means by “these things”. “These things” are the context to answering all the other questions in the text.
So what are “these things”?
- That God sent his own Son to fulfill the law for us. Verses 3-4
- That God’s Spirit is given to us and dwells in us to put to death the deeds of the body, and by whom we cry “Abba, Father”, bearing witness that we are Sons of God verses 12-16
- That the Spirit helps us in our weakness interceding for us according to the will of God. verses 26-27
- That God works all things out for our good, because He predestined us to be conformed to the image of his Son. He called us, He justified us, and he glorified us. Verse 28-30.
Because all of it is God’s work, and because God is for us, there is nothing that can come against us, nothing else that we are in need of that God has not nor will not graciously be given to us. There is no charge that one can bring against us, for it is God who justifies. There is none who can condemn, because Jesus Christ is interceding for us, who is at the right hand of the Father. There is NOTHING that can separate us from Christ and His love. No tribulation, no distress, no persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword. In all these things we are more than conquerors through Christ. Nothing, neither death nor life, nor angels nor demons, nor present things nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth. NOTHING in ALL creation can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. AMEN!
This passage is proclaiming our security in Christ. John MacArthur calls it “invincibility”. That Christians are invincible. The reformers call it the perseverance of the Saints. Not because of anything within or about ourselves but because of God. He predestined, He called, he justified, and he glorified. God does ALL his marvelous will, and all for our good and his great glory. We are invincible, we persevere, because God is at work in us and this world and he is Sovereign.
Is this what Bianca Juarez Olthoff will teach?
Well, let’s dive into her message shall we?
Mrs. Olthoff starts her message with gusto. She draws the audience’s attention by teaching them to “holler back”. But to “holler back” millennial syle. Instead of replying to a message, teaching or statement with “amen” she instructs them to say “facts”, instead of shouting “hallelujah” we’re to shout “big facts”, instead of “preach it” we’re to say “say it again”, and the new word she instructs us to use is “on guard”.
Now besides, perking the interest of the audience, she set up this word to set up her message. So let’s listen in: (Play clip 1)
Ok, she’s laid out what she’s going to focus on in this message. Her purpose in it is to encourage us to be conquerors. And I’m ok with that. The question is “How are we more than conquerors”? Why does Paul say this? Is Paul’s answer to these questions the same answer Bianca will give? Let’s find out.
She goes on to tell a story about how her husband has a literal sword under their bed in preparation for being “on-guard” in case of intrusion. She uses this story as an illustration to how we are told to be on guard for what the Lord wants to do in our life, because we have an enemy that wants to steal, kill and destroy. (Play clip 2)
Ok, just starting out, I gotta say that nowhere in Scripture are we instructed to be on guard for what the Lord wants to do in our life. Again, there’s just this popular view that God is very dependent on us to get His will done. We have to be cherishing what’s inside us so that we are led by the Spirit, like Beth Moore taught us. We need to not be slaves to fear and open up our inheritance, the gifts that God has given to fulfill our purpose. We need to not be counting our resources, and now we need to be on guard for what God wants to accomplish in our lives. What happens if we are not on guard, does God’s will get done?
The other issue is what does Jesus mean by “the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy”? Steal what? Kill what? Destroy what? Steal, kill, and destroy what God wants to do in our lives? Right off the bat that is completely contradictory to what is in this passage. We just read how those God foreknew he predestined, those he predestined he called, those he called he justified and those he justified he glorified. It is all his work, and he accomplishes it. He doesn’t need us to be on guard to get it done.
Now we do have Scripture that tells us to be on guard or watch out for false teachers/false shepherds. In fact they are described as thieves and robbers, these are who Jesus is actually talking about in John 10:10. But is this what Bianca means? Are we to conquer false teaching and teachers? I don’t think she meant this by using that passage.
She states that as conquerors we need to know what it is we are going up against and we need to fight. And Paul’s words are going to help us out with this, directs the audience to open to Rom 8 verses 31-37, then says this: (Play clip 3)
So regardless of what our opposition is, we are to know that a conqueror never wins if a conqueror never fights.
So if we don’t fight we will continue to wander through the wilderness? Well, is that a bad thing? Is it a sin to not fight? Will God’s will not get done if I remain in the wilderness? So I’m supposed to fight so I do not wander in the wilderness. And this doesn’t sound anything like what Paul has told us. Paul writes as if the fight is over, and we are conquerors because God gave His Son, who went to the cross for our sins and was raised from the dead and is now sitting at the right hand of the Father interceding for us.
But maybe she will go into that… She reads the passage and explains (Play clip 4)
Oh MY! AMEN! Amen and Amen! I love the passion she exudes as well. I wish she had included verse 29 &30 to solidify not only that God works all things for our good but also our security in His work, but man oh man that was good. Let’s keep listening. (Play clip 5)
Ok, started out a little iffy, but man did that turn around. I am pleasantly surprised at this point.
She continues by saying that the whole passage is fantastic but she wants to hone in on verse 37 specifically. And she wants to do that because it’s a super popular verse. One tossed around on Instagram, or Facebook, one we have hanging on our walls, and highlighted in our bible. And her fear is that it is overused, causing it to lose its power, especially if we overlook why Paul writes it. (Play clip 6)
*sigh* IT was going so well! No, I don’t think this passage is informing us of any sort of power we possess. It’s ALL about God’s work, He is the one with the sovereign power. He’s the one who predestined us from eternity past, who called us to Himself. He’s the one who justified us by his blood (Rom.5:9) and resurrection (Rom 4:25). And He’s the one that sanctifies us (1Pet 1:2; Rom 15:16), and he will glorify us with new bodies (Rom 8:23).
She continues on talking about what is meant by power, what the Romans understood about power, that to them power was the ultimate expression of authority, and that soldiers and conquerors were heros: (Play clip 7)
Ok, maybe what she says here r is true. But something is off.
First, Let’s take some time and examine who the emphasis is on here. 1- she emphasizes the word power and closely connects it to authority by making the claim that, to the Romans, power was the ultimate expression of authority, after telling us that we possess power. 2- she emphasizes the words “more than conquerors” to exclaim that this is what we are because of the “insane love of God”.
Now I want us to think about something here, because there is something just not quite right in her statements here. If the Spirit of God resides in us, we have a Helper. He grants us strength in our weakness, He prays when we do not know what to pray for, He produces fruit in us, He convicts us of sins, and enlightens us to his word, through His word. While we are granted these wonderful blessings, we are nowhere told in Scripture that because the Spirit works in us and IS IN us, we possess a power. I’m a stickler. The thought that one possesses the Spirit of God can and does draw one to look at oneself. And even seems at times like one can wield this power whenever one chooses. The word possess connotes ownership, and means “have as belonging to one”. The Holy Spirit’s power does not belong to me, but I belong to God, and in His grace He gives me the Spirit who helps by empowering me to walk in his ways.
The Scriptures talk about God granting or giving power to His people (Is.40:29; Psalms 68:35), but describes people as weak, weakness belongs to us, we may think we possess power but really all power and authority has been given by God to Christ who gives to whom He chooses, when He chooses. In fact we are really described as the possession of another, a slave to another, either to sin, death and the Devil, or to God and righteousness (Rom 6:15-23).
Christians are described as Christ’s Bride, Christ’s sheep, God’s Children, God’s people.
So because Paul exclaims that we are more than conquerors that means we are quote “empowered to be unrivaled that there is no foe that can take us down” -end quote? That really props us up, doesn’t it?
Let’s look at the Romans passage again and look at who is emphasized in Paul’s teaching and compare it to Bianca’s teaching. I’ll start at verse 27:
And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written,
“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom.8:27-39
Really…I just don’t like her teaching us that we possess power, and especially since Paul has, throughout the epistle of Romans, basically laid out how humanity is powerless to really do anything to save themselves. But it is by God’s grace and His power, especially the Gospel which is the power unto salvation, that we are saved; and as he is expressing in this passage, it is by God’s grace and power that we are more than conquerors. The emphasis in this passage is on God the one who has all power, therefore our salvation is secure. We are conquerors because He conquered.
I understand why people say this, and I see the encouragement it is meant to give, but oftentimes our flesh makes it about us, glorifying us by what God has given us, instead of being about Him and His power, sovereignty, and might.
But let’s keep going (Play clip 8)
Alright! Amen! I completely agree with her here. God IS the source of our strength. And I too fear that women don’t know Him But, I find this just a tad bit ironic. I too, fear women don’t actually know God. But why does she fear this? Didn’t Jennie Allen promise that we would leave loving Christ more, didn’t she say we would get more of Him? And we are 6 sessions in, only 2 more to go and she still fears that we don’t know this God? If we don’t know Christ we don’t know God, for Christ and the Father are One; Christ reveals the Father (John 14:10-11).
And another thing, Paul didn’t just claim that we are conquerors through Christ out of nowhere. Paul has been making an argument that our salvation; our calling, our justification, our sanctification, and our glorification are secure BECAUSE it is God who does the work, God who predestined, God who calls, God who justifies, God who sanctifies, God who glorifies. This is the power of God at work in our salvation. If any of these ladies took the time to exegete the passage we would get to know this God and his love and power. If she was so worried, why spend 13 of a 22 min message talking about nomenclature, her husband and his sword, being prepared to fight, Roman idea of power and authority, etc? Why not show us God from this passage? It’s very easy to do.
She proceeds to get very passionate and describes God: (Play clip 9)
He is a mighty, Sovereign, powerful God, and He is a loving Father. And he is gracious to all. But what is missing from this description? How about a just God, one who does not ignore sin (Ps145:20; 37:38)? How about a God who will one day pour wrath out on all who do not trust in the finished work of Christ (Ps.1:5; Matt. 13:41; 2Pet.2:9)?
Again, I have to think about the ladies hearing this that do not know the Gospel, and who have continually heard, throughout this conference, how much God loves them and wants them to conquer over condemnation from others, negative thoughts, lack of cherishing the Spirit that is in them, conquer over fear that keeps them from opening their inheritance, and feeling lost in their calling. All this, and nothing of our actual problem, our sin and rebellion against a Holy and Just God, and the solution: the life and death of THE conqueror, Jesus Christ who conquered over sin, death and the Devil. For those of us who believe in this Gospel it will be counted [as righteousness] to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, 25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification. (Rom.4:22-25)
So while what she describes of God is true, there are very important things that are missing that need to be said to those who, like Jennie said are, quote un quote- “just checking Jesus out”.
And notice she says it’s about Him and it ain’t about you. But this message is given to us to let us know that we need to fight and we possess power?
She states that we often don’t feel like a conqueror because we think of ourselves. For Mrs. Othloff though, when she thinks about Christ she feels like dancing and playing Gospel music. She quotes lyrics from one of his song and states that when we think about Jesus we should be breaking out in praise and worship, and then proceeds to read a commentary on this passage: (Play clip 10)
Yep, that’s the point of this passage. All things work for our good and His glory. All victory is His, all praise is His, all power is his, all glory is his. And I’ll say this though she quotes Margret Thatcher, relaying how one doesn’t quit trying to encourage us not to, God’s good plan and purpose even succeeds when we fail and don’t get back up. Even our failures are included in the statement “all things”. Even things such as trials, tribulations, persecutions, and even death God uses for our good and His glory.
Mrs. Olthoff goes on to tell the story about how her husband and her started a church in California and most recently decided to expand it to another campus within a prison. In this new church plant she describes a man by the name of Jeremiah, and how he had become so on fire for God that he spread the news of, no… not the Gospel, but the church. She basically explains how the church plant expanded, because these inmates love the way they worshiped and taught the word, and so they spread the word about this church causing even their family members to tune in by youtube and quote- “say yes to Jesus”. This is her example of how God uses all things for His glory and our good.
And then she goes back to Paul who, she says, is always trying to get our eyes on God and reads Ephesians 3:20: (Play clip 11)
Yes! This is VERY true. Paul always wants to speak about the Gospel and point us to Christ. He is …not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” (Rom.1:16). He determined to know nothing among the churches but Christ and Him crucified (1 Corin.2:2). In the verses right before Eph. 3 verse 20 he states that he prays that …. Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. (verse 17-19).
So if even Paul was determined to know nothing among them but Christ and Him crucified, if it is really all about Him, why, oh, why are we not hearing about Him? Why does she proclaim at points in this message that it is all about Him yet the rest is all about us and how we are to pick up our sword and shout on guard?
She goes on to talk about how she struggles with her teenagers, and even her weight. But though you may have problems, you won’t know how strong you are until strong is your only option. (Play clip 12)
This is what I call using Christ to boost your ego. You are strong, you are mighty, you are a conqueror. A message that uses Christ and His power so you can have faith in yourself and what He’s given you, how He’s empowered you. The motivation within the message and these types of teachings is to push you to go to Christ for what He gives to His people. Many people come to Christ for these blessings, yet do not want Christ Himself. They haven’t been told even of their need for Him, their sin and their lack of ability to be right with God. It’s wanting what a Father gives, food, shelter, protection, power, but not realizing one’s sins against the Father who has graciously provided. Yet, there’s a constant rebellion against Him. It is like the prodigal son, “give me the inheritance so I can go do my thing”. And what the audience really needs, is for these women to expose how the listeners are doing this, call them to repentance, so they see the muck and pig pens they have chosen to live in, their sinful nature and flesh that they walk in, and show them and urge them to meditate on The Father, to go to him through Christ.
And that’s the end of her message. I would say that was the best message given so far, and most we heard about Christ than all the others combined. There were several things I would agree with, it is just that she veres off track with the emphasis on us fighting and conquering in this life. While Paul’s emphasis is a bit different.
Paul, in Romans 8:31-37, not only tells us that we are conquerors (Mrs. Olthoff’s point) but also HOW we are, expounding on God’s sovereignty in our salvation and our lives.This passage is about the perseverance of the saints, it is deep and rich in drawing out the security we have in Christ, because of Christ. It describes WHY our salvation is secure. WHY our calling, justification, and glorification are invincible- because it is God at work. While Mrs. Olthoff rightly points out that we are conquerors through Christ, her emphasis throughout her message has been on us and herself. She wants to encourage us as fighters who will accomplish God’s calling. But Paul wants to encourage us as conquerors because Christ has accomplished the salvation of His people. She rightly worries that there might be ladies that don’t know God, but instead of taking time to really look at this passage and draw out from it, God, his Sovereignty, Christ and His work, and the involvement of the Holy Spirit in transforming us, we are encouraged to just believe that we are conquerors through Christ. And while she really gets emotionally charged about Christ, do you feel she has explained this passage to you? Or did she draw your attention to some power you possess inside you?
What do you think, did Bianca Juarez Olthoff handle the text correctly? Let me know at thoroughlyequipped316@gmail.com. I’d be interested to know what you think.
So until next time, where we will take a look at a message by Ann Voskamp on Romans 8:32, I pray that you go back to the passage in Romans and meditate on God’s great Sovereignty over your life and salvation. That he, in eternity past, predestined those who he calls, and calls those he justifies and justifies those he glorifies.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Eph. 1:3-14
I pray you understand that because it is his work, then all things that we think would hinder us from Christ’s love and being one day, glorified with Him, these things have no power… neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. I pray that the more you realize this the more your love and faith in Him grows, driving you to want to know more and more about Him, not just what He can give you, not just the blessing of being a child of God, but Him, Christ, our savior. And in that love for Him you call Him Lord, and walk in His ways and obey His commands.
I pray you are in His word.
MelbaToast
Excellent Review!